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 Homoseksualci i religija

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PostajNaslov: Homoseksualci i religija   pon ruj 28, 2009 1:34 am

Kako na to gledate? Mislim da mogu govoriti o religijama općenito, jer mislim da većina ne voli homoseksualce. Kako gledate na to da je osoba istovremeno katolik i homoseksualne orijentacije?

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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   pet lis 09, 2009 8:00 am

pa koliko znam, neš sam malo istraživala, Crkva nema niš protiv toga što je netko homoseksualan, ali ne smije to prakticirati...znači celibat.... banana dance

a sad realno, kako netko tko spava s osobom istog spola može biti katolik/pravoslavac/musliman...itd... pa službeno vjerojatno ne može, ali privatno imamo pravo na vjeru u što god želimo, ako u tome nalazimo mir, samo što bi onda trebali to nekako drukčije nazvati. no, onome tko je vjernik nije potrebno da to zove nikakvim imenom niti dobija neka službena priznanja, vjera je sama po sebi dovoljna pa mislim da onda ovo pitanje više nije ni važno, a što ćemo svijetu reći i što će si drugi misliti... koga briga
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   pet lis 09, 2009 2:19 pm

Ako ćemo već o vjeri, Bogu i homoseksualcima, mislim da je Bogu potpuno svejedno jel' ne'ko homo ili hetero, jer na kraju krajeva, "svi smo stvoreni na sliku Božju", i to bi popovima (i lopovima) već jednom trebalo biti jasno nakon silnog ponavljanja i propovijedanja te misli, za ime Božje! Rolling Eyes
Ono što me živcira u cijeloj toj priči je kada (neki) homoseksualci i lezbijke misle i tvrde (jer su ih tako odgojili/naučili - isprali im mozak, as a matter of fact) da je brak zajednica muškarca i žene i da mi nemamo pravo tražiti ista ona prava, koja imaju heteroseksualci. Rolling Eyes Ne kužim zašto se neki gay ljudi priklanjaju jebenim religijskim dogmama. confused Em su glupi, em su kukavice!

Dori me interimo
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   uto lis 13, 2009 11:47 am

Evo moj odgovor kao studentice teologije.Doduše, prišem ovo iz perspektive protestantskog fakulteta i ne, nisam vjernica samo da ne bi došlo do zabune.

Protiv homosexualaca nemaju ništa, dok se god "ne konzumiraju" homosexualnost.Misle da bi se s tim ljudima trebalo pričati i reći im da je to grijeh i da je najbolje ne griješiti, točnije ne sexati se i ne biti u vezi.Uvjereni su u to da se može pomoži pričom i da će osoba onda shvatiti da je sve što je do tada radila loše i prestati se tako ponašati, a tako će joj i grijesi biti oprošteni.U prilici da nekog gaya ili lezbiju drugi napadnu, branili bi nekoga od nas, ali bi kasnije pričali s nama o tome da to nije u redu.

Sve to sam lijepo saznala prvi dan faxa jer je odmah homosexualnost nekako došlča na dnevni red, na moje veliko iznenađenje i profesorica nas je pitala što bi napravili da vidimo kako "osobu homosexualne orijentacije" tuče grupa homofoba.
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   uto lis 13, 2009 12:19 pm

@ Uh Huh Hur: svaka ti čast, kada ti kao lezbijka i jedna liberalna osoba možeš slušati i trpiti sve što (vam) oni tamo toilet ! Pretpostavljam da im se svi oni, koji misle suprotno ne smiju suprotstaviti, jer bi ih vjerojatno izbacili s faxa, right? Evil or Very Mad
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   uto lis 13, 2009 1:30 pm

Nemam pojma, da budem iskrena.Rekla sam svoje mišljenje u vezi toga, bez toga da sam se outala budući da je bio tek 1. dan faxa, i nitko mi zbog mog mišljenja nije ništa prigovorio, točnije profesorica nije, tek je o tome kao o grijehu počela govoriti s jednom zadrtom konzervom, koja je homosexualnost kao grijeh i uvela u raspravu.
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   sri lis 14, 2009 5:23 am

Uh Huh Her je napisao/la:
Nemam pojma, da budem iskrena.Rekla sam svoje mišljenje u vezi toga, bez toga da sam se outala budući da je bio tek 1. dan faxa, i nitko mi zbog mog mišljenja nije ništa prigovorio, točnije profesorica nije,

Super da nije. Smile Sjećam se da je prije par godina u Big Brother-u (nisam gledala i ne gledam općenito, nego se pisalo po novinama) bio jedan dečko koji je tada bio student teologije. Jednom su oni tamo raspravljali o homoseksualnosti (a ne homoseksualIZMU kako mediji vole reći Rolling Eyes ) i on je rekao da je student teologije ali da on osobno podržava homoseksualce i njihova prava, te da mu nije jasno što to Crkva ima toliko protiv. Cool Netko je to naravno vidio i čuo, pa su ga nakon izlaska iz BB kuće izbacili (i) sa fakulteta s obrazloženjem popova/profesora da gay friendly osoba ne može studirati teologiju. Evil or Very Mad Tako da, ako zbilja želiš završiti taj fax, možda je bolje da to tvoji profesori i ne znaju (da si lezbijka, mislim). I don't know, you know what is best for you. Smile
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   sri lis 14, 2009 5:26 am

Uh Huh Her je napisao/la:
Evo moj odgovor kao studentice teologije.Doduše, prišem ovo iz perspektive protestantskog fakulteta i ne, nisam vjernica samo da ne bi došlo do zabune.

Protiv homosexualaca nemaju ništa, dok se god "ne konzumiraju" homosexualnost.Misle da bi se s tim ljudima trebalo pričati i reći im da je to grijeh i da je najbolje ne griješiti, točnije ne sexati se i ne biti u vezi.Uvjereni su u to da se može pomoži pričom i da će osoba onda shvatiti da je sve što je do tada radila loše i prestati se tako ponašati, a tako će joj i grijesi biti oprošteni.U prilici da nekog gaya ili lezbiju drugi napadnu, branili bi nekoga od nas, ali bi kasnije pričali s nama o tome da to nije u redu.

Crkva je živi dokaz da "only the Devil lives forever!"! Twisted Evil
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   sri oľu 31, 2010 3:36 pm

Judina sestra je napisao/la:
Kako na to gledate? Mislim da mogu govoriti o religijama općenito, jer mislim da većina ne voli homoseksualce. Kako gledate na to da je osoba istovremeno katolik i homoseksualne orijentacije?
Homosexualnost nije grijeh samo po sebi, već 'konzumiranje' .. a šta danas nije grijeh, phah.. javila se crkva kome šta reći, a tamo teško leglo pedofila, i još štite te monstrume..
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   pet tra 02, 2010 11:32 am

Evo da i ja odgovorim sebi... To da su homoseksualci divni i krasni a da je homoseksualni čin grijeh je takva budalaština da je ravna onoj o ukidanju limba. Kao, nemoralno. Ne znam kako seks sam po sebi može biti nemoralan, osim ako jedna osoba nije dala pristanak na njega (ili više njih ili jedna u grupnom seksu). Ok, možemo spomenuti promiskuitet ali ja ne bih promiskuitet nazvala nemoralnim, nego znakom da je osoba emocionalno nestabilna iz nekog razloga (ne mislim sad na malo slobodnije seksualno ponašanje nego na osobe koje zaista imaju problema). A ako i ovo uzmemo u obzir, to nema veze s tim da li je netko gay, bi ili straight. Dakle, ne znam kako je to seks nemoralan.
Drugo, jebe se njima za moral. Oni inzistiraju na tome jer tako piše u Levitskom zakoniku. A Levitski zakonik su pisale mentalno diskutabilne osobe prije nekoliko tisuća godina, a Crkva misli da je napisao bog. Zašto se njima jebe za moral? Jer njima nije bitno da razmisle o tome da gay ljudi nikome ne škode, da ljubav nije nemoralna i da je treba poticati u ovom ionako ružnom svijetu, njima je bitno da je tako bog rekao i točka. A dovoditi u pitanje boga je, naravno, grijeh. A šta ako je bog nemoralan?
Ja mogu razumjeti homoseksualce koji su gay i u nekoj religiji jer da bi čovjek pripao religiji, upliće se mnogo faktora - emocionalna vezanost za istu (učeni su odmalena), sviđa im se dotična religija i žele joj pripadati, a onda iz nje "izrežu" onaj dio o homoseksualnosti i pokušavaju biti bolji katolici/muslimani/hinduisti, itd. tako što će i druge učiti da ne osuđuju homoseksualce, nemoćni su oduprijeti se tradiciji, itd. Moramo razmisliti o tome šta to znači pripadati nekoj religiji. Tko može reći da li je "dozvoljeno" prihvatiti samo nešto iz određene religije? Ili prihvatiti sve pa onda to drugačije tumačiti? Recimo, Židovi (to će nam Nepenthe bolje znati reći Smile ) ne misle svi jednako. Postoji strašno mnogo židovskih teologija i židovskih misli. Ako na taj način uzmemo i druge religije kroz kontekst homoseksualnosti, onda ne mislim da su gay katolici/muslimani/buddhisti/itd. kreteni.
Jedino što je grozno jesu oni koji gorljivo kroz religiju zagovaraju promjenu iz gay u straight, a i sami su "bili" gay. To su laži koje mladim i krhkim gay dušama mogu jako naštetiti. Oni koji žive autohomofobičnim životima pod utjecajem religije ima, mislim, tri kategorije : 1. Ljudi koji su jako autohomofobični ali su mirni, melankolični, emocionalno rastrojeni i izgubljeni, koji u pravilu ne diraju druge, 2. Oni ratoborni koji žele sve ljude na svijetu promijeniti iz gay u straight i 3. Oni koji kažu da se ne seksaju s osobama istog spola jer znaju da je to grijeh, ali to svejedno skrivećki rade. Na primjer, svećenik Ted Haggard (iz neke evangelističke crkve u Americi).
Ovim prvima bih pružila neki antihomofobični tečaj koji bi im pomogao shvatiti da je homoseksualnost normalna seksualna orijentacija, drugima bih oduzela dozvolu (ako je imaju) za ta njihova sranja, a trećima bih rado razotkrivala njihovo licemjerje.

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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   sub tra 03, 2010 2:05 am

Ja ne mogu uopće riječima izrazit kolko mi je apsurdno to što ti popovi cijelo vrijeme pile po tom zakoniku zbog toga što u njemu nešto piše, a isti je, baš ko što kažeš, napisao neki čiča prije miljardu godina. I pitanje je što ga je uopće navelo da takvu pizdariju napiše, možda je bio pijan i nije imao drugih ideja, možda mu dečko nije dao guze pa je bio ogorčen, a možda mu se sin jedinac propederio pa je to ovog nagnalo da sere pizdarije. Zato što je neki homofob jednom davno ostavio svoj pečat u danas najčitanijoj knjižurini, sad se svi toga moraju držat ko pijan plota. Lajk, da na tom komadu papira piše kako se svi moramo seksat isključivo s kokošima, bil se ovi i toga držali?
Ono što mi je još apsurdnije od svega je to što država daje novac (i to mnogo, mnogo novca) nekoj instituciji koja se temelji, paz ovo sad, na vjerovanju u nešto. Shocked Ja čvrsto vjerujem u to da će mi se sise za četrdeset godina preselit za koji centimetar južnije. Mogu li i ja dobit koju kunu iz proračuna, oh pretty please?

(pardon my french, radna mi je subota pa sam malo živčana i jebe me alergija usput, tenkjuverimač)

Kad smo već kod religije, smiješni su mi ovi ljudi koji se izjašnjavaju ko ogromni vjernici, a u biti ne znaju penis o svojoj religiji. Jučer slušam dvije babetine u busu kako pričaju o Uskrsu s unucima, i pita mali babu zašto se uopće farbaju jaja na Uskrs i baba mu počne objašnjavat kako se time kršćani raduju jer je Isus ustao iz groba. Shocked Wtf? Pitam se kako objašnjava uskršnjeg zeca, valjda je Isus po izlasku iz groba skočio prvo u obližnju gostionu na pečenu zečetinu (nije bilo kebaba, štaš). Ako takvima slučajno kažeš da su svi ti običaji više-manje identični paganskima i da farbanjem jaja zapravo ne slavimo ničije uskrsnuće već proljeće i plodnost, dobiješ uvrijeđene poglede i "ti si glupa ateistica, ko da ti išta znaš". Ae.

Ucrvat ću se tu, oću doma. Sad
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   sub tra 03, 2010 7:07 am

Judina sestra je napisao/la:
Moramo razmisliti o tome šta to znači pripadati nekoj religiji. Tko može reći da li je "dozvoljeno" prihvatiti samo nešto iz određene religije? Ili prihvatiti sve pa onda to drugačije tumačiti? Recimo, Židovi (to će nam Nepenthe bolje znati reći Smile ) ne misle svi jednako. Postoji strašno mnogo židovskih teologija i židovskih misli.

No problem. Smile The most important facts about Judaism, Jews and their view on homosexuality:

Today, Judaism, more than any religion, has rejected moral judgments against homosexuality, and supports the gay agenda.
Reform Judaism, representing 39 percent of American religious Jews, is now in total endorsement of sodomy. It says: We hold that homosexuality is no longer {an abomination}; it is not a mental illness or social deviancy; it is not a perversion of the natural order. Homosexuality is not a choice or a preference; it is not something that one decides to do or abstain from doing. It is, like, heterosexuality, the way one is. As such it makes no sense on religious or moral grounds to differentiate between people on the basis of sexual orientation.
Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the Union For Reformed Judaism, concurs: For the first time in history, a major rabbinical body has affirmed the Jewish validity of committed, same-gender relationships.
Conservative rabbis, who lead 33 percent of religious Jews, announce they will soon ordain gay rabbis and encourage homosexuality for Jewish men and women who are so inclined.
Orthodox Judaism, 21 percent of American religious Jews, has not yet outwardly endorsed homosexuality. In fact, it officially forbids homosexual relations between adults.
But in the Talmud, the highest religious, ethical and legal authority for Orthodox Jews, we find a very different, shocking reality: little boys under the age of nine (delectable objects of homosexual lust) are repeatedly described as incapable of “throwing guilt” on the adult who rapes them!

ADL (Anti-Defamation League) Support Homosexuality!
ADL knows the fastest way to destroy existing society is through homosexuality. Historically, no nation pervaded by sodomy endured for long. It’s for this reason that Jewish Bolshevik Bella Kuhn, conquering Hungary after the Russian Revolution in 1917, force-fed homosexuality into the curriculum of public education, transforming Hungary’s youth into moral degenerates. The same thing is happening today as ADL promotes homosexuality in our school system, even from the kindergarten level.
Several years ago, through Barnes and Noble bookstores, ADL promoted homosexuality through their “No Place for Hate” program. It encouraged families visiting the bookstores to invite a homosexual couple to their home for an evening. This would teach kids, ADL suggested, that there’s no truth in Christian judgments against sodomy. Gays, ADL says, are some of the nicest, most non-threatening folks your kids can get to know.
In major US cities, ADL indoctrinates city governments, schools, even liberal churches, that Biblical Christians are gripped by a psychiatric disorder: “homophobia.” ADL says bigoted Christians persecute homosexuals, and are motivated by “hate literature,” the Bible. ADL claims it should be illegal to even criticize same-sex behaviors in public.


Why Are Most Jews Liberals?
It is thus no mystery why Jews are predominantly liberal, Marxist, pro-homosexual, and anti-Christian. This tiny minority of 2.5 percent of the American population have gravitated toward, and succeed in controlling, media, finance, and government. This control is necessary for one great purpose: to fulfill the Talmudic dream of world dominion.
Of course, many liberal Jews are without any conception of being directed toward such global governance. No matter. What is important is that Jewish leadership, especially over the last several centuries, has supplied the premises and propaganda which directs and molds the Jewish masses, even their intellectuals, into liberal ways of thinking and reacting.
The various movements within Judaism differ in their view of homosexuality. Traditional Judaism considers homosexual acts as a violation of Jewish law (halakha). More progressive movements of Judaism believe homosexuality today was not understood when the Bible was written so the Biblical prohibition of homosexual acts needs to be adapted.


Biblical Prohibition

According to the Bible, homosexual acts are "to'evah," an abomination.

In Leviticus 18:22, it is written: "And you shall not cohabit with a male as one cohabits with a woman; it is an abomination."

And in Leviticus 20:13, it is written: "And if a man cohabits with a male as with a woman, both of them have done an abominable thing; they shall be put to death; their blood falls back upon them."

The Biblical prohibition of homosexual acts seems harsh at first glance, but not all orthodox Jews interpret these passages in a simple way.


Boteach

According to Boteach, homosexual acts are wrong simply because the Torah says they are wrong, and not because they are an aberration or sickness. Sexuality as a whole is instinctive, and both heterosexuality and homosexuality are natural. The Torah is against homosexual acts, not homosexual people. Judaism and G-d love all people. Boteach reminds us that the Torah also calls eating non-kosher food 'to'evah', an abomination. Torah condemns the homosexual act, not homosexual love or the homosexual urge. "Judaism does not prohibit or in any way look down upon homosexual love. In the eyes of Judaism the love between two men or two women can be as natural as the love between a man and a woman. What it does prohibit is homosexual intercourse."

The Rebbe

Rabbi Menachem Schneerson accepted the fact that certain men and women have an inherent sexual attraction to the same sex. However, these men are not "gay" and the women are not "lesbian." Rather, these are people with a sexual preference for the same sex. In addition, the Rebbe believed this preference is a result of social conditioning, and not a result of an irreversible physical condition. The known history of homosexuality in Judaism begins in Leviticus, which describes intercourse between male homosexuals as a capital offence. The historically prevalent view among Jews was to regard homosexual intercourse as sinful, arguing that it was forbidden by the Torah. However, this has been a subject of contention between various Jewish groups and has led to both debate and division among modern Jews.

Homosexuality and Orthodox Judaism
Sexual intercourse between two men is forbidden by the Torah, as stated above, and is a capital offense. The Torah prohibition of Lo tikrevu legalot ervah ("You shall not come close to another person for the purpose of committing a sexual crime") forbids all other sexual acts which can lead to intercourse, and prescribes the punishment of lashes.

Homosexual acts between women (lesbianism) were forbidden by the rabbis on the basis of "Do not follow the ways of Egypt where you once lived, nor of Canaan, where I will be bringing you. Do not follow [any] of their customs." (Leviticus 18:3). The oral law explains that what is meant is sexual customs and that one of those was the marriage of women to each other, as well as a man to a woman and her daughter. The Talmud follows this view, forbidding lesbianism. Like all Rabbinical prohibitions, violation can incur lashes. Female homosexuality is regarded as less serious than male homosexuality.

The Orthodox Jewish position generally holds that homosexual attraction is not inherently sinful, though it is regarded as unnatural. However, someone who has had homosexual intercourse is seen to have allowed their "unnatural attractions" to get the better of them, and it is thus believed that they would be held accountable by God for their actions. If he does teshuva (repentance), i.e. he ceases his forbidden actions, regrets what he has done, apologizes to God, and makes a binding resolution never to repeat those actions, he is seen to be forgiven by God (in a similar manner to the other capital crimes, except murder).

Modern Orthodox Jewish View
In recent years a very small number of (mainly Modern Orthodox) rabbis and laypeople have begun re-evaluating homosexuality as a phenomenon, and the Orthodox community's response to homosexual Jews. Until recently it has been assumed that all homosexuals chose to engage in homosexual actions in order to spite God (le-hach'is), to be perverse, or due to mental illness. Familiarity with sociological and biological studies, as well as personal contact with Jewish homosexuals, has brought some Orthodox leaders to different viewpoints. This probably started as early as the 1970s.
The Rabbinical Assembly has issued a position paper stating that the Divine image is reflected by every human being, of any sexual orientation, and admits that there is good reason to be concerned about the fact that gay and lesbian Jews have experienced not only the constant threats of physical violence and homophobic rejection, but also the pains of anti-Semitism. They note that homosexuals are members of all Jewish congregations, and that the AIDS crisis has exacerbated the anxiety and suffering of homosexual Jews.

Note: Torah = Hebrew Bible
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   sub tra 03, 2010 9:36 am

Oh, and special thanks to the nanny Fine (Fran Drescher)!! the man
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   ned tra 04, 2010 12:00 pm

Ovo što si napisala, Nepenthe, zvuči sasvim dobro. Primjetila sam, gledajući razno razne debate, da ima jako liberalnih Židova - Recimo rabinica (jel' se tako kaže?) Julia Neuberger iz londonske Liberalne sinagoge je otvoreno gay friendly i za ženska prava i jedan rabin Johnatan Remain je za to da se djeca ne "zatvaraju" u vjerske škole nego da sva djeca budu u državnim školama, jer će na taj način naučiti nešto i drugim religijama i od malih nogu naučiti se toleranciji prema drugačijem. To je to što sam ja znala o tome, nisam se stigla baviti judaizmom, ali sam definitivno primjetila da ima više Židova koji su gay friendly nego katolika i kršćana općenito (o muslimanima da ne govorim).

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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   ned tra 04, 2010 12:12 pm

Budizam i homoseksualnost:

Theravadski budizam, koji se smatra i najkonzervativnijim, prihvaća homoseksualnost i ne osuđuje je. (a pogotovo mahayanske, manje konzervativne, škole budizma). Buddha je, što se tiče seksualnosti, rekao da je zabranjeno ono što čini loše drugima, a u to je silovanje, pedofilija, prevara žene/muža, drugo seksualno zlostavljanje/uznemiravanje. Buddha nije smatrao seksualnu orijentaciju relevantnom za postizanje nirvane. Buddha je, ipak, naučavao da je sve patnja, pogotovo ono što nas veže za niske strasti, ali opet, to se odnosi kako na heteroseksualni, tako i na homoseksualni seks. On je naučavao srednji put što se tiče svega, dakle, ne ni trapljenje a ne ni prekomjerno uživanje, a to se odnosi i na seks. U Jatakama, buddhističkim tekstovima, s odobravanjem i poštovanjem opisane su veze između homoseksualnih osoba.
Danas su buddhisti gay friendly i zbog toga buddhizam privlači mnoge gayeve i lezbijke.

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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   ned tra 04, 2010 12:25 pm

Idun je napisao/la:
Ja ne mogu uopće riječima izrazit kolko mi je apsurdno to što ti popovi cijelo vrijeme pile po tom zakoniku zbog toga što u njemu nešto piše, a isti je, baš ko što kažeš, napisao neki čiča prije miljardu godina. I pitanje je što ga je uopće navelo da takvu pizdariju napiše, možda je bio pijan i nije imao drugih ideja, možda mu dečko nije dao guze pa je bio ogorčen, a možda mu se sin jedinac propederio pa je to ovog nagnalo da sere pizdarije. Zato što je neki homofob jednom davno ostavio svoj pečat u danas najčitanijoj knjižurini, sad se svi toga moraju držat ko pijan plota. Lajk, da na tom komadu papira piše kako se svi moramo seksat isključivo s kokošima, bil se ovi i toga držali?
Ono što mi je još apsurdnije od svega je to što država daje novac (i to mnogo, mnogo novca) nekoj instituciji koja se temelji, paz ovo sad, na vjerovanju u nešto. Shocked Ja čvrsto vjerujem u to da će mi se sise za četrdeset godina preselit za koji centimetar južnije. Mogu li i ja dobit koju kunu iz proračuna, oh pretty please?

(pardon my french, radna mi je subota pa sam malo živčana i jebe me alergija usput, tenkjuverimač)

Kad smo već kod religije, smiješni su mi ovi ljudi koji se izjašnjavaju ko ogromni vjernici, a u biti ne znaju penis o svojoj religiji. Jučer slušam dvije babetine u busu kako pričaju o Uskrsu s unucima, i pita mali babu zašto se uopće farbaju jaja na Uskrs i baba mu počne objašnjavat kako se time kršćani raduju jer je Isus ustao iz groba. Shocked Wtf? Pitam se kako objašnjava uskršnjeg zeca, valjda je Isus po izlasku iz groba skočio prvo u obližnju gostionu na pečenu zečetinu (nije bilo kebaba, štaš). Ako takvima slučajno kažeš da su svi ti običaji više-manje identični paganskima i da farbanjem jaja zapravo ne slavimo ničije uskrsnuće već proljeće i plodnost, dobiješ uvrijeđene poglede i "ti si glupa ateistica, ko da ti išta znaš". Ae.

Ucrvat ću se tu, oću doma. Sad

Mudro zboriš Smile I duhovito zboriš Very Happy Ma garant je taj tip koji je to napisao ili rekao nekome tko je napisao bilo naduren jer mu ovce nisu htjele na pašu, pa se istresao na prvo što mu je palo na pamet Very Happy Sramota je da praštaju čovjeku kad ubije, a homoseksualnim osobama govore da se suzdržavaju jer je to grijeh. To nije dio nikakve kulture ni religije, to je čista diskriminacija koja ima veliki odjek u svijetu jer je Crkva veoma moćna i bogata institucija. A Isus, centralna ličnost kršćanstva, ništa nije ni rekao o homoseksualnosti, ali iz njegovih bi se riječi moglo zaključiti da ne bi imao ništa protiv, osim ako ni on nije bio licemjer, jer valjda je kršćanski poticati dobre vrijednosti, a među kojima visoko na ljestvici zauzima ljubav. Moral je u centru kršćanstva, kao što je u centru svih religija, a moralom se uči što je dobro a što loše, i kako je ljubav nešto loše?
Joj, ovo objašnjenje baba je stvarno smiješno. Ali to ti je, kad su ljudi religiozni po tradiciji, pa to odmalena uzimaju zdravo za gotovo i ne potrude se saznati nešto o svojoj religiji. Ja mislim da u pravilu, ne uvijek, ali u pravilu, oni koji u punoljetnoj dobi samo odaberu religiju znaju više o njoj nego oni koji pripadaju religiji "od rođenja". A financiranje Crkve, naravno, total bullshit. Nema se za radnike, kao, ali ima se za dolazak pape.
Crkva ima toliku moć i utjecaj, mogli bi napraviti toliko dobra, a ne samo da ne rade dobro, nego rade loše stvari, i to vrlo loše. Nikad mi nije bilo jasno ovo - Crkva je protiv homoseksualnosti. U redu, hajde, uzmimo stav Crkve. Ali ako se kod nas ikad legaliziraju gay brakovi, usvajanje djece i druga prava, šta će se to oduzeti Crkvi i ostalim katolicima koji ne vole homoseksualce? Ništa. Ne moraju se oni ženiti s istospolnim partnerima/icama, ne moraju usvajati djecu. Isto i za pobačaj. Ako se zabrani pobačaj, pate oni koji ga žele napraviti. Ako se pobačaj legalizira, oni koji su protiv ništa ne gube,i dalje imaju pravo na svoj anti stav o pobačaju i i dalje mogu ne pobaciti, dok oni koji su za pobačaj imaju svoje pravo. I svi zadovoljni! Ne kužim. (ovo o pobačaju je čisto kontemplativno, jer je on još kod nas legalan, JOŠ).

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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   pon tra 05, 2010 6:38 am

De-sexualizing God and religion
Among the consequences of the unchanneled sex drive is the sexualization of everything --- including religion. Unless the sex drive is appropriately harnessed (not squelched --- which leads to its own destructive consequences), higher religion could not have developed. Thus, the first thing Judaism did was to de-sexualize God: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" by his will, not through any sexual behavior. This was an utterly radical break with all other religions, and it alone changed human history. The gods of virtually all civilizations engaged in sexual relations. In the Near East, the Babylonian god Ishtar seduced a man, Gilgamesh, the Babylonian hero. In Egyptian religion, the god Osiris had sexual relations with his sister, the goddess Isis, and she conceived the god Horus. In Canaan, El, the chief god, had sex with Asherah. In Hindu belief, the god Krishna was sexually active, having had many wives and pursuing Radha; the god Samba, son of Krishna, seduced mortal women and men. In Greek beliefs, Zeus married Hera, chased women, abducted the beautiful young male, Ganymede, and masturbated at other times; Poseidon married Amphitrite, pursued Demeter, and raped Tantalus. In Rome, the gods sexually pursued both men and women.
Given the sexual activity of the gods, it is not surprising that the religions themselves were replete with all forms of sexual activity. In the ancient Near Fast and elsewhere, virgins were deflowered by priests prior to engaging in relations with their husbands, and sacred or ritual prostitution was almost universal. Psychiatrist and sexual historian Norman Sussman describes the situation thus: "Male and female prostitutes, serving temporarily or permanently and performing heterosexual, homosexual oral-genital, bestial, and other forms of sexual activities, dispense their favors in behalf of the temple." Throughout the ancient Near East, from very early times, anal intercourse formed a part of goddess worship. In ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, and Canaan, annual ceremonial intercourse took place between the king and a priestess. Women prostitutes had intercourse with male worshippers in the sanctuaries and temples of ancient Mesopotamia, Phoenicia, Cyprus, Corinth, Carthage, Sicily, Egypt, Libya, West Africa, and ancient and modern India. In ancient Israel itself, there were repeated attempts to re-introduce temple prostitution, resulting in repeated Jewish wars against cultic sex. The Bible records that the Judean king Asa "put away the qdeshim [temple male prostitutes] out of the land"; that his successor, Jehosaphat put away out of the land ...the remnant of the qdeshim that remained in the days of his father Asa"; and that later, King Josiah, in his religious reforms, "broke down the houses of the qdeshim." In India until this century, certain Hindu cults have required intercourse between monks and nuns, and wives would have intercourse with priests who represent the god. Until it was made illegal in 1948, when India gained independence, Hindu temples in many parts of India had both women and boy prostitutes. In the fourteenth century, the Chinese found homosexual Tibetan religious rites practiced at the court of a Mongol emperor. In Sri Lanka through this century, Buddhist worship of the goddess Pattini has involved priests dressed as women, and the consort of the goddess is symbolically castrated.


If one chooses which of the Bible's moral injunctions to take seriously (and the Bible states its prohibition of homosexuality not only as a law, but as a value --- "it is an abomination"), of what moral use is the Bible?
Advocates of the religious acceptance of homosexuality respond that while the Bible is morally advanced in some areas, it is morally regressive in others. Its condemnation of homosexuality is one example, and the Torah's permitting slavery is another. Far from being immoral, however, the Torah's prohibition of homosexuality was a major part of its liberation: 1) of the human being from the bonds of unrestrained sexuality and 2) of women from being peripheral to men's lives. As for slavery, while the Bible declares homosexuality wrong, it never declares slavery good.
Those who advocate religious acceptance of homosexuality also argue that the Bible prescribes the death penalty for a multitude of sins, including such seemingly inconsequential acts as gathering wood on the Sabbath. Thus, the fact that the Torah declares homosexuality a capital offense may mean that homosexuality is no more grave an offense than some violation of the Sabbath. And since we no longer condemn people who violate the Sabbath, why continue to condemn people who engage in homosexual acts?
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PostajNaslov: Re: Homoseksualci i religija   čet sij 19, 2012 1:04 am

Quotations:

"I know that God created in me a need to love, the ability to love. I cannot believe that God would be so spiteful to say 'Ha! you're gay, you can't do anything about it.'" Chris Ambidge, co-convener of Integrity's Toronto chapter, a support group for Anglican/Episcopalian gays and lesbians.

"I think that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin, but the Bible also teaches that pride is a sin, jealously is a sin, and hate is a sin, evil thoughts are a sin, and so I don't think that homosexuality should be chosen as the overwhelming sin that we are doing today." Billy Graham, 20/20 program, 1997-MAY-2

"I'm tired of people telling me that homosexuality is a terrible sin. Homosexuality is not a sin. Heterosexuality is not a sin. It is coerciveness, promiscuity, manipulation, lack of safety, and lack of a prior commitment that makes a sexual act sinful -- not the gender of the two people involved." Anonymous posting to a gay mailing list.


The beliefs of many North Americans about the nature of homosexuality, fall into one of two patterns called "conservative" and "liberal" in the table below. Because of space limitations, some of the descriptions are necessarily very brief, and lack depth.

Conservative
Generally held by:

NARTH the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality -- a small association of therapists

Most conservative Christians and their denominations.

Religious conservatives within Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, etc.

Some members of mainline religious denominations.

- Homosexuality is a behavior. It is what one does.
- Attitude towards homosexuality is based largely on biblical passages.
- Homosexual behavior is intrinsically sinful, disordered, abnormal and unnatural. It is an offense to - God. God intends everyone to be heterosexual.
- Individuals choose their sexual orientation at or after puberty.
- Sexual orientation is determined by upbringing, not by genes. Incompetent parenting skills by the parent of the same sex can cause the child to become a homosexual later in life.
- Sexual orientation can be changed during adulthood through reparative therapy and/or prayer.
- Since homosexuality and heterosexuality are behaviors, the concept of bisexuality is not really meaningful.
- Allowing gays and lesbians to have equal rights to heterosexuals would encourage more youth to choose to become homosexual.
- Sexually-active gays and lesbians should be refused church membership
- No sexually-active homosexual should be considered for ordination.



LIBERAL
Generally held by:

Human sexuality researchers.

Professional mental health therapists and their associations.

Gays, lesbians and bisexuals.

Most religious liberals and their faith groups.

Some members of mainline religious denominations

- Homosexuality is an orientation. It is part of one's being.
- Attitude towards homosexuality is based largely on scientific studies and personal awareness.
- Heterosexuality, bisexuality and homosexuality are three normal, natural variations of sexual orientation, found throughout all societies, cultures, and eras.
- A person's eventual sexual orientation is determined for them before school age.
- The tendency towards a particular sexual orientation is genetically predetermined at conception. An unknown environmental factor may or may not trigger the "gay" gene(s) and determines the person's orientation.
- Sexual orientation in adults is unchangeable.
- A continuum exists between homosexual and heterosexual orientation; a small minority of people has a bisexual orientation.
- Equal rights for gays and lesbians are fundamental human rights issues similar to equality for woman, racial minorities, and the disabled.
- Sexually-active gays and lesbians should be welcomed as church members
No person should be ineligible for ordination because of their sexual orientation.


However, within these two -- liberal and conservative -- viewpoints lie a number of shades of belief. We have identified six specific points of view which can be called :

Abomination,

Change is expected,

Celibacy is expected,

Marginally acceptable,

Equality and

Liberation.


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